Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to the Talking Food With Bidfood podcast. I'm Julie Oust, Head of Sustainability at Bidfood and your host for today.
In this episode, we'll be discussing the Better Business act campaign. I rarely need an excuse to talk about this campaign and why I believe so strongly in it. But June 9th happens to be better business day in the UK. So given that Bidfood has been a supporter of the campaign for quite a few years now, I. I thought it'd be a brilliant opportunity to create a podcast to shine a light on what this important campaign is fighting for.
I'm lucky enough to be joined today by two guests who are top of my wish list to talk about this subject. One of them is also a Bidfood customer. So let's dive in.
So, in no particular order, let's do introductions. We're joined by Sophia Greason from B Lab uk. Can you introduce your role and your relationship with the Better Business act campaign, please, Sophia?
[00:01:02] Speaker B: So, I'm campaign manager for the Better Business Act. My job is to steer the strategy for B Lab UK's flagship policy campaign, which is the Better Business Act.
Think of it this way. The B Corp movement is all about showing how businesses can be a force for good and we say that's basically raising the ceiling.
The BBA is here to raise the floor for the entire UK economy.
In order to certify B corporations must change their articles of association, essentially what we think of as the director's job description, and that is to consider people, planet and profit equally.
The BBA wants to make this legal change standard for every company in the uk.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Thanks, Sophia. It's a really ambitious campaign, but it does make a lot of sense. And Ashley, you're head of Sustainable Food at Cook, a Bidfood customer. Please can you tell me a bit about your relationship with the Better Business act campaign?
[00:01:52] Speaker C: So Cook are a family owned business making frozen ready meals which we sell through our own shops. And we were a founding UK B Corp back in 2013.
We've been part of the Better Business Coalition since it launched in 2021.
At Cook, we've long believed that business can and should be used as a force for good in society.
And the Better Business Campaign really aligns with how we operate and how we think the role of business should be in creating long term value for people, communities and the environment.
So signing up was really a no brainer for us.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: Thanks, Ashley. I've dived into a branch of Kucon many a time when life's been extra busy. And I'm a big fan of the fish pie. If I can just plug that. And Sophia, please can you start off by explaining the problem that the Better Business Campaign is aiming to address?
[00:02:40] Speaker B: Sure, and thanks for the opportunity because this is really the crux of why we've got such an ambitious campaign.
The core of the problem lies in section 172 of the Companies Act 2006 which governs how companies operate in the UK.
This law was originally intended to make directors consider employees, customers and the environment and that's called enlightened shareholder value. But it hasn't really worked as planned in practice. The phrasing of section 172 has reinforced a culture of short term shareholder returns and we call that shareholder primacy.
So essentially the issue we're trying to resolve here is shareholder primacy, which is something the government wanted to do back in 2006.
There are some high profile corporate failures that demonstrate why this is a dangerous approach and why the norm is not working.
For example, there's cases like Sir Philip Green's retailer BHS and the construction company Carillion. They both demonstrate how a narrow focus on shareholders leads to underinvestment and eventual collapse.
And those particular cases cost jobs and taxpayer money, receiving a lot of scrutiny in Parliament as well.
The scandal surrounding water companies, which I think we've all been hearing about for many years now, demonstrates the harms that are caused by prioritising returns over environmental stewardship and the customers.
Mass layoffs at P and O fairies over a video call showed how harmful prioritisation of cheap labour over proper management is can be. And recently the rise in the cost of living really spotlights what we call greedflation, which is the extensive risk of companies rising prices because they can and not because they have to. And that obviously affects the consumer and all of us trying to simply survive from day to day.
The recurring problem here is that most directors feel their primary duty is to maximise profit first and foremost.
The BBA addresses this by amending section 172 of the Companies act so that every company is legally empowered to consider long term interests. That looks like thinking of your employees, thinking of your customers and thinking of the planet.
It changes the default setting essentially. So companies in the UK are able to balance people, planet and profit by design rather than being beholden to the need to maximize profit.
The way we see it is by embedding what's called stakeholder governance into the law will move away from short termism and create a system that fosters long term responsible behaviour, reducing the constant need for reactive regulation to fix the damage caused by corporate failure. And it is worth noting that this isn't a kind of out there idea. B corporations operate under this model and demonstrate how resilient and effective and profitable it can be.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: Thanks for explaining that Sophia. I think the water company example really is an excellent example of why we need this and it will resonate with a lot of listeners, especially all the, as you say, the recent media exposure of the impact of sewage on our seas and rivers. And has the Better Business Campaign evolved since it started five years ago?
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Yes, massively. It started as an idea between B Lab UK's CEO Chris Turner, who is also Campaign Director and Purpose Union Agency, and Bates Wells law firm. So those three work together on creating and drafting what is the Better Business act legal wording and coming up with the need, well, identifying the problem and where the Better Business act could be the solution.
It launched in April 2021 as we've already heard, and that was right after lockdown, so that meant everything was online. But we still managed to have speakers from all parties there and it was a really fantastic moment for the B Corp movement and responsible business to come together and look towards making a big shift in policy.
It's grown into a coalition of over 3,000 businesses now. They range from local SMEs to high street giants like Iceland, Patagonia and Virgin Group and we're fronted by two co chairs, that's Mary Portas who came on board most recently, and Tony's chocolonely CEO Douglas Amont.
In the last year the campaign gained significant momentum in Parliament as well. So we saw our legal wording tabled as a private Member's Bill which essentially secured debate time and direct engagement with the Minister at the time.
We also saw two early day motions and those are basically petitions for MPs to sign their name to and those gained a lot of signatures which proved there continues to be cross party appetite for this policy change.
I think what's most important though is that whilst our team and our supporters have grown, we now have in house public affairs expertise and a plethora of business spokespeople for the campaign. The core ask hasn't drifted one inch, so we're still laser focused on a simple Amendment to Section 172 which specifically targets the aspect of company law that isn't working so that profit and purpose can sit on the same level.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Thanks Sphere. That is really useful to know. I think this sort of progress doesn't really reach the Mainstream news as far as I'm aware. So it's great that you've covered those. And just to avoid confusion for our listeners, you work for B Lab uk, but coalition members do not have to be B Corp certified businesses to sign up. Can you just explain a bit more about that, please?
[00:07:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a really great point and a very important distinction. So in fact, the majority of our coalition members are actually not B Corps. They're purpose driven SMEs or multinationals looking to multiply their impact.
The B Corp certification is for businesses meeting the highest standards of social and environmental performance.
So as I mentioned earlier, it's the ceiling for good business conduct. The BBA is about raising the floor and that is more about ensuring we've got a level playing field for all companies in the UK and a starting point that fosters improved outcomes for people and planet alongside profit. So our supporters range from the Institute of Directors to major high street brands that I've mentioned already to B Corps as well.
Any business or organization can sign up at no cost. And by joining you're adding your voice to a very powerful movement that wants to level the playing field and reform corporate governance. And once you're in the coalition, you can engage however suits your capacity.
That might mean simply staying informed via our updates, attending webinars and events that we put on, or for those who want to be more hands on, joining us in speaking directly to policymakers or the media to keep this at the top of the government's agenda. And you know, something like this, where Bidfood has put together this podcast is a really, really welcome contribution to the growing voice of the campaign.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: Thanks Sophia. I like your expression raising the floor, because that really does describe it. Well, companies need the legal impetus to act if the commercial levers aren't strong enough to enable them to do so. And the other point you made, reassuring people that they can engage at a level to suit their capacity, that's really worthwhile. I personally enjoyed joining in a campaign day at the Houses of Parliament last year. It was really energizing. I love being amongst all those people for positive thinking businesses, but I appreciate that that sort of activity is possibly a step too far, especially for smaller businesses based nowhere near London.
And Ashley, can I bring you into the conversation? Why did Cook add their name to this call for change in UK law? And why does it matter to Cook, please.
[00:09:59] Speaker C: Yes. So as Sophia mentioned earlier, for us, signing up is about levelling the playing field so that all businesses consider people and planet alongside profit. At Cook We've always tried to operate around doing the right things, whether that's sourcing ingredients more responsibly, investing in people, people through schemes like our All Talent program where we provide stable jobs to people with barriers to employment, for example, people who may have served some time in prison, or reducing the environmental footprint of our recipes. But all of that often comes with higher costs and added complexity.
So by lobbying for change to the Better Business act, we hope that we can make an approach like ours the norm and not the exception, as we strongly believe that it's systems change like this that we need to see more of right now.
[00:10:49] Speaker A: Thanks, Ashley. I completely agree and I think the situation for bidfood is very similar in that we want to do more, but we really need the level playing field to help us act.
So thank you for explaining that. And for the skeptics out there, do you think that the campaign means anything to your customers? Do you try and tell your customers about it? Have you seen any benefits from being part of it brand wise?
[00:11:12] Speaker C: Yes. So it's definitely something that we have mentioned in our communications to customers.
I think it's one of those things where customers might not recognize it by name as of yet, but we are seeing through customer feedback to things like our impact Report is that they care deeply about how our food is made so where our ingredients are coming from, how animals are treated and the impact that we're having on people and in the communities we operate in.
So last year we launched an initiative called Recipes for Change to help bring that to life in a simple, practical way for our customers and suppliers. It's our framework for continuously improving our recipes, our sourcing decisions and our food environments so that ultimately our food is better for health, nature and the farmers we rely on.
Being part of the Better Business act strengthens the credibility of initiatives like Recipes for Change as it shows that we're not acting in isolation in it shows that we're part of a wider movement, all pushing for meaningful change which really helps build customer trust in our brand.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: Brilliant. Thanks, Ashley. I really like Cook's Recipes for Change initiative. And for the benefit of our listeners who might not be aware of it, you and your team invited lots of suppliers onto a call where you were talking about the launching the Recipes for Change initiative and bringing trying to bring us on the journey of the trajectory improvement that you're on. So I really appreciated that as a supplier that you're giving us a heads up and that you've set out your ambitions and you're trying to take us with you on that trajectory of improvement. So you're already trying hard to do better business and kind of create that ripple effect in your supply chain, which is really brilliant. Thank you. So we've talked about what the campaign's trying to achieve and why Cook is part of it, and the fact that there are over 3,000 coalition members. But the fact remains that we need so many more organizations to add their name to the call for change. For this to gain the critical mass to tip the balance, the world needs more responsible business and greater accountability toward people and planet because the minority won't achieve the change we need, whether it's to do with the climate and nature crisis or in the creation of social value within our communities. Not only this, but that Burden on Business act needs to be felt across the board. And yes, that play on words was completely intended. What would you both say to any customer of ours that's listening and undecided with regard to this campaign? If we can go to you first, Sofia, on that one?
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And I couldn't agree more. I think it's been really clear today what role business can play in society and in addressing some of our biggest challenges. So I hope listeners have heard why the campaign is so vital and why it's important to support it. The reality is that business as usual is no longer fit for purpose. We're calling for this simple upgrade so that we can meet the needs of a modern economy.
And businesses like Cook and Bidfood are the ones leading this charge. So it's really important that we keep adding weight to these great voices. If you're wondering whether this model actually works, as I mentioned earlier, B Corp's a proof of concept and the data is clear. Research by Demos shows that a stakeholder governed economy could add £149 billion to the UK economy.
And we've also seen that when we look at B Corp's performance over the last 10 years in the UK, they're scaling faster, they're creating more jobs and they're attracting more investment than the market average. So I think it's really important to lament here that this isn't, as I said, just a nice idea to, to make the world a bit friendlier. This is a really, really legitimate business model and it's, and it creates a kind of UK competitiveness that should be tapped into more, particularly given the economy we're in today and the global situation that we're all facing.
It's not just the nice to have as well, it's what the country wants in the UK.
70% of the UK public believe that businesses should have a legal responsibility to people and planet. And even directors agree with an Institute of Director survey saying 62% believe businesses shouldn't exist solely to make money. So again, this isn't a far fetched idea, it's very much where we're heading.
The next step is simple for our listeners. Head to betterbusinessact.org and join our coalition of over 3,000 businesses.
You can be a one person business, you could be a think tank, you could be a membership community or a high street name. We will take anyone on board. It's completely free to join and you simply have to sign up on the website by entering a few details.
And as I mentioned already, there's no obligation other than adding your voice to a movement that believes business can be a huge driver for positive change in our world. And I really hope that the examples that you've heard from today demonstrate that that is not a far fetched idea. It's a really valid way of working in this country.
Sign up today and if you've got another two minutes, we've got an online tool to write to your MP which will help us make sure that the law finally catches up with the way that the best businesses are already operating.
[00:16:11] Speaker A: Thanks Veer. Great job of articulating how organizations can get involved and you've highlighted some really compelling stats there with regard to B Corporation. So that was really interesting. And I know that from our customer base we have more and more inquiries about products from companies that carry the B Corp logo. And Ashley, what would you like to add to this please?
[00:16:32] Speaker C: Yes, so I echo everything that Sophia has just said and I'd also say that signing up to the Better Business act is one of the simplest ways to support the kind of change we so desperately need right now. From a perspective, if it became law, it would remove a lot of the tensions we currently face as we wouldn't be competing with businesses who are cutting corners on things like labour practices or environmental standards. You know, instead, if everyone was working towards a more responsible baseline, then that would really help unlock faster progress as actions like sourcing ingredients from farming systems that operate in ways that are better for nature would become more mainstream and therefore more accessible.
So it would really mean that we'd all be able to go further, faster and you know, that's the real end game for a business like Cook. That's what we want to reach.
There's also the reputational upside. So customers, colleagues and suppliers are increasingly expecting businesses to stand for something and being part of the Better Business Coalition is a clear, credible signal of your intent to do better for people and the planet.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: Thanks, Ashley. You've done a great job on bringing to life some of the reasons as to why organizations should consider adding their name to the coalition supporting this change in the UK law.
[00:17:46] Speaker C: Yes, thanks Julie. I think, you know, ultimately this is about the future of business. We know that the current system isn't delivering for people or the planet and the Better Business act is a really practical step towards changing that.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: And thanks Sophia. I know this has been your first ever podcast and you've done a brilliant job of shining a light on the campaign. So thanks very much.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: No, thank you for the opportunity, Julie. It's really fantastic to talk about this with such engaged advocates for the campaign and I'm really excited about what's ahead for us. It's a great time to join. We've got loads planned and a fantastic strategy for this year and onwards.
[00:18:19] Speaker A: Brilliant. And we like to finish our podcast with some quick fire questions just for fun. Ashley, I must ask, have you ever tried to pass off any cook products as your own cooking or has anyone tried to get away with it successfully with you?
[00:18:31] Speaker C: So, speaking from personal experience, yes, many a time I would say that my coloring skills are sort of limited at best. So, you know, why not pass off a delicious chef made meal off as my own? And it's actually something that we actively encourage at Cook Brilliant.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: Why not? And Sophia, being a campaign manager sounds brilliantly purposeful, the sort of job that would help you get out of bed in the morning. What's the highlight of your role?
[00:18:57] Speaker B: Well, I should add, actually being able to pass off someone else's cooking as my own is now going to get me off of up in the morning. I'll keep doing that. But yeah, my answer is a lot less fun. But the highlight for me is getting to do a job that helps build the world I want to see in what is a very collaborative way.
So as part of my role, I get to engage in politics. I'm working with inspiring businesses such as yourselves, and I'm obviously advocating for a change that thoroughly aligns with my worldview.
So from a really selfish point of view, it means I feel pretty close to the action and the impact.
And from a professional point of view, I've learned so much from the plethora of businesses behind this movement. I've only been in the role less than a year and each one has such a unique and inspiring story that has shaped the strategy. It reminds me of the ways in which business can be a force for good, and that creates such a high sense of motivation and momentum in a world that's pretty difficult to be to be motivated in sometimes. So the increasing momentum behind establishing such a big change to our economy is really what keeps me going.
[00:20:00] Speaker A: Brilliant Sphere. Thank you. I love that. And we're all jumping out of bed for various reasons, so thank you. And to our listeners, thank you so much for joining us. We hope you found this episode insightful and that it's inspired you. To find out more about the Campaign for Better business, please visit betterbusinessapp.org where you can find out more. And also make sure you follow and subscribe to Talking Food. That way you'll be the first to hear our future episodes. Until next time, goodbye.
